Cookie Rehab Clinic

Cookie Rehab Clinic[LAME] forum
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 GvG Rant 11/12/09

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Reed



Posts : 185
Join date : 2009-07-16

PostSubject: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:23 am

got bored so decided id rant to waste 5mins or w/e... (doubt any will read it all)
build we ran(roughly):
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
Win Games:
+8 Headless Chickens - beat them 8v8 + blood raged
+8 Penguins In The Desert - ?
+7 Guild Down - ?
+8 Deadly Scorpions - ?
+9 The Valium Knights - ?
+8 Vent Rage - Resign cos no crange
+7 Unbelievable Clay Crayon - beat 8v8 (bspike)
+11 Vent Rage - Resigned we had changed to gearspike
+8 Guild Down - they were some split with a VoR mes? (RC was mighty this game) we were gearspike also

Loss Games:
-6 Pathetic Heroes - ?
-7 Imperators Up Side - ?
-7 Hi We Are From - ?
-8 I Heroes Of The Newerth I - DirT reform, beat us 8v8 2 war, ranger, 2 para
-7 N P Cs Farm Players Now - ?
-7 Tuhtii Bassee - ?
-7 Noventa Sesenta Revienta - Horrible tactic imo see rant below (bspike)
-6 Omg Let Me Take A Screen - first game with Gear spike, no Mirror of Disenchant on para (they were bspike)

Ok so thats our rating losses, sadly i dnt remember many of the games, and im not sure if i want to...
However, the game vs Noventa Sesenta Revienta on burning, was a joke?
We took mirror of disenchant specifically to counter bspike so we could 8v8 but instead we split? Did u not think once we got closer to champ range, we would play less guilds on their own gh? we played maby 3 bspikes last night that weren't crange...
If we had been running:
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
(the variation of gearspike we woulda played)
which has 2 counters specifically put in to counter bspike, would we have split on burning with it? because i dnt see the point of bothering to take them if that is so, i mean we arent gonna bother 8v8ing them because apparently the midline + backline is gonna ball up, when over the night the only ppl who balled vs bspike, were the warriors and that was no matter what map we played on...
So why do we waste skill slots taking counters to builds, that we dnt even face where the skills will be useful? ;s thats like running a split build, and then perma 8v8ing with it vs a spike build...
Also at the start of the game, ranger + rit were left behind at sentinals, while both warriors charge over fire, meaning i have to run backwards + forwards to heal ppl, use your compass! if u see ppl are behind, dnt push over, and then dnt ask if u can push into their base more, when we arent even past the sentinals... use a brain + eyes to see what is happening in games... After we had run around a bit and rit + prot died (rit is ressed, prot is out of range), we decide to 8v8 them, really clever to do that now we have no hex remove when hammer cant and hasnt stopped everything the me/p casts in the games we played, we could have just treated it like every other map we play on, and just 8v8 them from the start, the only major choke, is the push between the 2 bridges,otherwise there is actually alot of space to spread out for backline / midline... hence we dnt ball + die vs every other build, thats also why teams dnt like pushing thru the choke at the start on burning...

Also when 8v8ing bspike u cant expect the hammer to stop everything the me/p is gonna do because its too unreliable a block on a kd = no rupt, u send me off to run flags on imperial, when really, may as well have the divine favor heals and hex remove and just wipe them, and then run a flag when they are dead, we dnt need a boost 3mins into a game, if we take deaths, running a flag at the start isnt gonna help us, because if we die first, and die alot (noticably enough that we dnt kill them) then we have lost, they will cap flag, and we just wasted 40secs of a game running it...

we had some good games tho like vs HCs where they died in a couple of mins, had a rage, and resigned... also game vs the first bspike guild on Imperial was nice, where we really saw how effective the mirror was 8v8...

Finally, i hurd the paragon in gearspike is more defense than the rit in rawrspike?
How?
Paragon has, The Power Is Yours (1 energy every 3seconds)
Mending Refrain (6 health per second)
and thats it...
Ritualist has, Protective Was Kaolai (75 health on demand (pretty much))
Life (7 health per second)
Weapon Of Warding (50% block 6 health per second)

Nice Logic on how the para is better than the rit, when rit has 2 party heals that combine to 12 health per second, while paragon has 1 party heal that is 6 health per second, as far as party healing goes, rit is twice as good...
The Power Is Yours is nice energy, but energy is rarely an issue if we are killing... whereas Weapon Of Warding is a third guardian, but u can stack it on monks when needed... kinda imba and saves monks 5e from having to prot themselves when used well.

Vs Bspike when u get rid of their cultists, and u have 2 warriors both taking dmg, i think 2 party heals is nicer than mending refrain + 1 energy every 3 sec... and vs pressure when u have poison on half your team, 12 health per second > 6 to top bars up with... yes monks get 1 more energy every 3sec, but they have to top people's bars up more often which i think, is more likely to cost more energy... (hence rit > para, might explain why we die in Gearspike when we stop killing, but not so much in rawrspike)

Things for me to improve on:
Accept Paragon = more defense than midline rit
Accept RC > PnH in all situations
Accept tactics i think are stupid, are actually the best tactics we should use
Run flags faster vs bspike + dnt forget to pick it up at the start
Stop making us loes by running PnH
Stop making us loes by not running RC
Start running RC to make us win more
Keep running RC so we keep winning
Dodge rupts when running RC so we keep winning
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
Mr Muscles
avatar

Posts : 190
Join date : 2009-03-29

PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:43 pm

psst i think hes hinting something.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cookierehabclinic.forumotion.com
Drill
Cpt'n Shitter
avatar

Posts : 194
Join date : 2009-03-30
Age : 26
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:59 pm

iv'e read most of it reed like 80% and i agree on the fact that rc isn't better in everysituation besides u have a feeling u play betetr with PnH then with RC
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drag0n
Sheep boy
avatar

Posts : 371
Join date : 2009-03-30
Location : Sheep land

PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:57 pm

i guess i need to rant soon about how rc > pnh and how gear spike > rawrspike. But in match now so not yet
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drag0n
Sheep boy
avatar

Posts : 371
Join date : 2009-03-30
Location : Sheep land

PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:34 pm

Ok so here goes. First i will address our match on burning. Reasin i really hate 8v8'ing bspike on this map is because the combat area is tiny. If they ball up down at the bottom then u have to push through the tiny choke in order to 8v8. So your monks are balling when u push through and everyone is a potential spike target instead of midline/backline (especially infuse) being just out of range. This makes infusing very risky for starters and they kill your infuse he will run out of energy twice as fast. BUT i agree it was a mistake not to 8v8 for the sake of trying our counters on burning.
Finally during the match the split was very clearly called by the 2 tactic callers (me and matt). When we are in agreement the team SHOULD follow the calls, regardless if they disagree unless the call is completly retarded eg, flagger stand behind the bspike whilst we 8v8 (lol gamer) Rolling Eyes

Now onto RC/ls vs PnH. In a meta of dual ranger/balance rc is clerly superior. The real question is what is there to pnh on? The only hexes are diversion/shame and water snares. Vs shame/diversion a large number should not get through if wars/ranger do their job. And rest of the time other hex removal should be sufficient/superior as i believe is the case with veil. So ofc main use of pnh is vs water snares/blurred. Here again i feel that standard hex removal should be sufficient. Snares do not shut a warrior down completly cos of spear/bulls/shock/our snares etc. If perma snares then ofc there is a problem but ranger should be rupting a few and some can get removed my monks. And this just leaves blurred and here either dshot it or cope with standard removals. PnH is superior when pushing flags in though veil is great at times. Vs a bsurge rc is clearly superior. This just leaves protting/red barring. The standard spike is gonna consist of deepwound, poison and maybe bleeding if cripslash which everyone has. Its a fairly safe assumption that the poison covers the deepwound and hence i believe that mend condition just aint sufficient, the deepwound has to come off. Reed when u said that its the same healing with 20% reduction it makes no sense to me. You take the same abslute damage but recieve less healing, hence u are healing less and wasting energy. U cant assume u can prot every spike because no monk can keep up with 2 warriors. Plus add in the rend factor. If u are using pnh to catch spikes then its clearly a waste. why remove the condi's when u could also heal for 200+ health at the same time.
Also 2sec recarge > 12. PnH just cant keep up with a cripslash which deepwound combos every 5 sec along with the primal. Your point about pblock also seems quite foolish to me. For pblock to be scary the mesmer has to be able to reflex 3/4 cast. Hence WoH is just at risk as rc is. When the heal is pblocked and they spike with 3+ condis pnh cant keep up the red bar. RC however can.
If barbs way is about to become meta again then i fully support the use of pnh and always have Smile


Finally gear spike vs rawr spike. I argue that gear spike has more defense and heres why. I assume your calculations that the party heal ratio is 6:12. However this is assuming that everyone in your team is taking damage and hence are all half life when life dies in order to have such a beneficial effect. Clearly this is wrong, bars are never all at 50% so most of the healing of life will be wasted, alot more than refrains. The additional warding that gear spike has is reguarly overlapping when we played the build. Also u can fake out warding just the same as guardian. Dont hit a warding target xD. I belive the power is yours is certainly equally as good as warding if not better.
There is also the defense that arises from "the best defence is offence". Gear spike can pressure 10x better than rawr spike can. When monks have to spend 20energy per spike every 5 sec + deal with poison blurs are gonna stick longer. Obviously when the opposing team is dying its more defensive and there is no doubt we kill faster with gear spike. Finally the rit is soooooo easy to shut down compared to the para. All additional defense provided by rit can be shut down by a ranger. The same applies to the spike aswell. Refrains are broken because it is quite literally impossible to shut them down - only way i can think is dshot the anthen and maintain perma blind on the para that is never cleaned. This or dodge every spear attack (gl with that Very Happy ) The same applies to the spike and so more damage output from the para allows for greater defense.

Reed i really enjoyed this topic. More in future pls Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Reed



Posts : 185
Join date : 2009-07-16

PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:25 am

Drag0n wrote:
The only hexes are diversion/shame and water snares. Vs shame/diversion a large number should not get through if wars/ranger do their job. And rest of the time other hex removal should be sufficient/superior as i believe is the case with veil. So ofc main use of pnh is vs water snares/blurred. Here again i feel that standard hex removal should be sufficient. Snares do not shut a warrior down completly cos of spear/bulls/shock/our snares etc. If perma snares then ofc there is a problem but ranger should be rupting a few


There is also the defense that arises from "the best defence is offence". Gear spike can pressure 10x better than rawr spike can. When monks have to spend 20energy per spike every 5 sec + deal with poison blurs are gonna stick longer. Obviously when the opposing team is dying its more defensive and there is no doubt we kill faster with gear spike. Finally the rit is soooooo easy to shut down compared to the para. All additional defense provided by rit can be shut down by a ranger. The same applies to the spike aswell. Refrains are broken because it is quite literally impossible to shut them down - only way i can think is dshot the anthen and maintain perma blind on the para that is never cleaned. This or dodge every spear attack (gl with that Very Happy ) The same applies to the spike and so more damage output from the para allows for greater defense.

Reed i really enjoyed this topic. More in future pls Very Happy

firstly if what you said about diversion / shame is true, does that mean our warriors + ranger are never doing their jobs? since vs most balanced teams, pretty much every diversion + shame goes through.
Secondly, if the ranger is rupting the diversion + shame, how is he also going to rupt the water ele, as well as doing what all rangers love to do, rupting monks? sadly there arent enough rupts on his bar to keep the skills shutdown, especially when u include guardians / wardings that will block maby 1/4 of his rupts.
Thirdly, you say snares arent enough to shut warriors down because of bulls + shock? just the otherday you were saying how snares were the thing keeping you from killing, also dragon if you ball up (quite common tbh) and blurr hits more than 1 of u, thats both monks hex removes used up, just for 1 skill... how then can we remove the snares that stop you getting to your spikes? we cant maintain veil for long periods of the games because our energy wont let us do it, often when i have veil i will keep it up for maby 20 seconds and if no hex goes up ill take it off again...

As for "the best defense is offense" it is when you dnt let up on calling spikes, sadly almost every game we play u go "oooh there wiping" and just stop calling spikes, they then recover and start to kill us, and then you cant even think why we are dying and start moaning over vent... the reason we wipe with gearspike mostly is we stop killing, so really thats not a very reliable form of defense, if it randomly stops for 5mins... also is that your reason for sitting in primal rage and cancling it at the end of spikes and then saying you werent in primal? but because you were doing 33% more damage so they wont be able to kill us cos of the strong offense that is keeping us alive? somehow when you get 45dp in 5mins or so because of this, it clearly isnt working...
You say all the defense from a rit can be shutdown as well as the spike, u seem to forget that drill crys on most maps (especially imperial) about us spreading out enough, that he isnt in range of everyone, as soon as that happens, refrains go down, he then has to put them up, and they can just be dshotted. So many times when we have played vs good teams, they just dshot his refrains, thats then all the defense from the para gone for 28seconds or so (strong), on rit, if Life is rupted (bad positioning) or just killed, then 1) u still get some heal if its killed, 2) u still have pwk, 3) u still have warding, you said they are always overlapping, most of the time the flagger wardings 7, and the midline rit wardings 6 (that is if u keep wardings on monks) isnt hard to work that out...

I dont care much about RC / PnH / LS and which i run, but u either forget or dont care how shit RC is on splits, or as soon as me + kyle split up, with PnH i can solo defend base, solo defend mainteam, support flagger more than with RC, or support kyle more than with RC, due to the fact they have 1 condition on most splits (burning) and thats the same heal with RC, as it is mend condition, and as for IoP / shatterstone / fragility / blood spam ppls, PnH actually has enough hex remove to remove the covers for IoP too? ;p
You also dont seem to care about preference to skills and ability to play them / with them... both me and kyle have said we prefer PnH to RC and play BETTER with it, but you still think the lack of RC kills us, mostly because u got trained down once by a cripslash, notice that only killed u and it was the axe that killed me / kyle? RC also relies heavily on draw, a skill mostly missused and will mostly waste energy, when we manage with cond remove on just me, and have managed for the past 4 months or w/e, why suddenly take additional skills that keep us alive by PREVENTING damage (i think they are called Prots) on kyle, and replace it with a skill that only real use is to remove blinds (erm where are the bsurgers) and remove conds from me (owait i have +15 armour when cond)
I said im happy to run LS, however imo it lacks cleanability for a SPIKE build (arent those builds where you want the war or midline to be as clean as possible) since u cant remove blurr / snares perma with deny or veil and if u want to rely on rupts from a ranger who can be blocked (a good monk guardians a target getting camped for rupts)

I think you also said something about on burning having to push thru a choke into their team to reach them if they ball at the bottom, is it common that bspikes do that? im pretty sure ive only seen teams do it once they are forcing a boost, which again is mostly after u have run around for a bit.
You also said people should follow calls UNLESS they are retarded calls, most ppl would consider splitting in first 10seconds with a SPIKE build retarded when most people used to say "spike them out" and then go and 8v8 and sometimes win (no specific counters used), so surely when we have counters in our build, we should go and spike them out and just wipe them...

Also i forgot to say in the first bit, if i ran aegis on my bar with LS, do i still run flags in first 40seconds of games on imperial (the time where u are gonna take deaths or make kills) seems again, kinda pointless to me, or will u send the flagger and loes the healing we have for the infuser, which is intended to save him energy, by healing him up after he uses infuse?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: GvG Rant 11/12/09   

Back to top Go down
 
GvG Rant 11/12/09
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» What do you think about GOLD?
» a rant about people who glorify depression
» Does level seriously have to matter?
» fantage rant
» a rant on V2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Cookie Rehab Clinic :: GVG :: Match Analysis-
Jump to: