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 Our [LAME] Faults

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Obsi
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PostSubject: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:35 pm

When the metaphorical shit hits the metaphorical fan, 9 times out of 10 it's someone else's fault. I admit that I am a culprit of this blame game, no doubt, but so too are all of you. The repercussions of this so called 'blame game' span through the entirety of the Guild; there are those who will be aggressive, violent and hateful, and there are others who forcefully inject their opinions to diffuse the situation, if only to make themselves anything but the cause of the loss. We can all say that it's the loudest, most opinionated member that creates the arguments and creates the most hassle. We call all say that it's this member who should be dealt with, or kicked for their bad behaviour. We call all say that Matt is the problem. However, the more we say it the less I believe it to be true.

We all play a part, more prominently now than ever before. Every time a disagreement erupts the finger, in some way or another, is pointed squarely at Matt. It may be a simple sigh, or an "oh for gods sake" on vent, but no matter how small the spark we all throw fuel onto it and sure enough the guild will burn for a good day or two before it's finally out. There's only so much damage one guild can take and we're nearing the loss of two core members, Jaks and Swamp. You may disagree and say that it's an over exaggeration, but it will happen in the end if this arguing continues. It's not a nice gaming atmosphere. If people aren't having fun then they wont stick around, and as we all now guild members are like sheep; they follow. First it'll be Blood, then it'll be Kyle, then Matt and Reed and Dragon and me.

Now I'll go back to my original point: 'blaming Matt just because'. Matt is volatile, we all know this and we all accept it. The one thing we do not do however is take it into consideration. Arguing back and sarcastic remarks (Kyle) do not make anything better. It's not about winning arguments its about getting better and winning Gold (yey). If you think we can win just by yelling and shouting and letting people know what their problems are without accepting our own then think again. It ain't gunna happen!

So how do we overcome this? Well, there really is no exclusive answer to that question, but there are things we can look out for that may give a more accurate view of the matches we lose, and win.

    Match Reports - we used to have these, but now we do not. Why? If the general consensus is that they are a good thing then I'd be willing to write some up or at least co-write them. The advantage of these is that we can argue in written form as opposed to verbally. I know it's still likely to happen, although atleast this way every argument can be read and considered at length, as and when people choose.

    Observing every Loss - we can all make a guess as to why we lose but it's very rare for us to pick up on the little things.

    Individual Player Reports - call me dumb and call me an idiot but for god's sake don't just yell at Matt. The last time I was criticised was wayyyyy back when, and I'm not saying I'm amazing, in fact the reverse, but for some odd reason I never hear any critical analysis of my play. It would be much more constructive to do a thorough evaluation of each players performance for every important match, win or loss, and from there we can make real improvements.

    Vent Recordings - this comes into individual player reports too. We need to know what people need to improve on, and its a well known fact that our communication fucking sucks.


Now bearing all this in mind are we likely to change? Well, I think we can. I think we can get Gold and I want to get Gold. I'm sure a shit load of you do too so why not take the first steps at achieving that goal. Just read this and think about it. Discuss it below and tell me what you think. Like I said I'd be willing to record vent matches and write up summaries.
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Reed



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:48 pm

should also observe some wins, in that some are very lucky :p but seems right stuff to do if wanting to improve.
Another thing i might suggest is finding a more caring prot, since i no longer care much, how i am playing, about trims, mAT, zcoins, rp, rank, rating... 2 years ago, i loved monthlies, improving, rating gains, going up in rank, earning rp, but i just dnt find gvg so much fun as to care about all of the above anymore.
i am happy to play ladder / AT when you need it, but i won't do the monthlies, and im happy to offer help / advice, but recently anything i say generally gets ignored...


Last edited by Reed on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Obsi
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:52 pm

The problem is that we should be debating not straight out ignoring any points. It's hard to do that on vent or in guild chat because chat just goes by so fast. On dedicated forums it should be much easier.
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Reed



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:55 pm

mm


Last edited by Reed on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Drag0n
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm

Ok main points for individual players one by one, EVERYONE should voice their opinions here with no flame or anything. This is purely for constructive purposes

Blood: At times u get annoyed and instead of dealing with it calmly scream loudly. In combination with me and matt this can be catostophic at times
Matt: Let your irl emotions impact your gameplay at times. Simplest solution is not play ofc. Also people will accept your splitting if u call EXACTLY what u are doing on split and why.
Jaks: You never respond to splits fast enough, you should always be the first one to go along with matt. Also u should push flaggers alot more and call u are doing it.
Obs: You say u dont know whats going on alot. If so ASK. Chances are someone else does not know aswell.
Myself: Sometimes too 1 dimensional in my game play, dont change a tactic if one is not working. Sometimes i talk when i should just shut up. sometimes i go to flag when our offense should do it. Need to be more careful with smiting at times in split situations where rc healing is important.
Reed: New mic pretty please, sometimes u say monks go back to defend splits when really it should be offence. Sending prot back is oldschool lame and pretty bad:P
Kyle: Dont annoy Matt more when he is annoyed. Say what is causing problems in the backline and scream what u want mainteam to do about it.
Swamp: Speak alot more, i never know whats on split and u never call what u need eg, call for precise offense, call if someone needs to flag. Also i imagine at times u need to overcall matt when hes gets too aggresive on our splits, dont be afraid to do this (i find big nasty words help).

Other: flag pushes - we dont do this nearly enough these days, matt will train a flagger, but we dont split sin and ranger behind their backline and kill flagger out of monk range ever
Bodyblocks - we never do it, even when 10 seconds from boost. It needs to be co-ordianted long before flag reaches stand but will only work with flagger pushes to slow flagger down


Last edited by Drag0n on Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Obsi
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:02 pm

Dragon make a separate post. You too Reed.
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Jaks



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:57 am

Jaks: Split more and push harder on flaggy and do some (pussy) apply camping
Matt: Split less if its senseless
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:26 am

QQ less
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Zuranthium



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Sun May 23, 2010 7:49 am

Understand that it takes time to adapt to new things if you want a good result.

I did not enjoy being completely blamed yesterday in the match against the Finn guild. Obviously I did not play my best (though we would have won regardless had circumstance #2 been different), but there are 2 reasons for that:

1. A new bar - which throws me off both in terms of getting used to the skills and in terms of getting used to the new keybinds.

2. An incredibly bad build decision was made - which was to not bring party healing.

Not bringing party healing into GvG is simply bad. The fact is that nobody died until we got into a spot where 7/8 of the party members were under pressure and the bars weren't going back up. As a prot Monk this makes me think, "What's going wrong here? Why is the healing not coming? Do I need to start pushing bars up?" In normal matches when something happens like WoH being diverted, it would be normal for me to adapt by using Guardian less (the WoH can now focus more energy into Guardian since their primary heal is gone) and instead removing small condi stacks with RC for healing that I would normally just let the heal Monk use WoH on.

And then in the case of yesterday I didn't even have RC. We had Mend Condition on both Monks instead, which resulted in quite a bit of disorientation - "Do I need to remove that blind with my Mend or is the other Monk going to get it? Do I need to heal some some these condis with Mend Condi to help the WoH or are people going to start getting heals?" Ultimately I started trying to make it my job to remove blind as much as possible since the frontline was constantly complaining about it (I specifically watched the Ele and used my removal as soon as the Blind got cast) and that's exactly why we were able to score 2 kills so quickly.

However, they were then able to push us hard because, in addition to my focus being elsewhere at times, we had no party heals. Our midliners were sitting in the frontline in cast set with 70-80% health (and part of the problem right there is not the party heals but the fact that the midline was playing like that). Incredibly easy spike targets. The first spike I actually saw coming but I was being KDed by a Hammer so there was nothing I could do. After that it was just all downhill because we were falling back and still not getting party heals since our flagger had a terrible bar. There's a reason why party healing is so important and I can't believe you all sat there and said it wasn't needed. In addition to simply being a necessity for staying alive (if playing 8v8 as we were), your flagger needs the party healing so that they can actually do something when running the flag and out of party range.

When someone isn't comfortable they aren't going to play well. It's like the match last week where I had to AFK for just a few seconds at the beginning of the match and specifically told you not to run the flag in at the very start. You didn't listen and pushed up too far anyway and so you died because I hadn't made my way up to the flagstand yet. I then got blamed for you not listening and (among other bad things happening, like our flagger and assassin being soloed) it was just impossible to concentrate for the rest of the match.

After I left yesterday the guild continued to lose. Clearly there were significant problems with the rest of the team as a whole that were not my fault (even if, yes, I wasn't playing nearly my best).

So, back to the first post of the thread - you can play the blame game or you can work on fixing problems with players who know what they are doing and are willing to examine all of their own faults to constantly improve. We wouldn't have won so many matches against top 20 Guilds if I wasn't good at GW.
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Sun May 23, 2010 2:39 pm

The fact of the matter is, you don't prot the spike you place a Aura of faith after the majority of damage occurs, just like aura of stability or balance stance you use that after the KD.
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Zuranthium



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Sun May 23, 2010 5:44 pm

Did you read what I wrote? A new bar and complete lack of faith/coordination with the (bad) build that was being run. You didn't Infuse the spike when I was KDed either. No single person can be blamed.

I use Stab and B-stance before KDs all the time and follow where damage is going. The fact of the matter is, it's no coincidence the guild got top 50 for the first time when I starting playing. Nor is it coincidence that many guilds I've been in over the years have maintained a top 30 rank. Very Happy

I greatly enjoy the personalities of the people in Cookie Rehab and thought it was a guild where the members were open minded and had the correct mindset to improve and grow. Raging over a bad match results in nothing.
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Drill
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Sun May 23, 2010 7:32 pm

Zuranthium wrote:

thought it was a guild where the members were open minded and
BWAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA
no srsly no...
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Wed May 26, 2010 3:06 pm

you don't allways use it befor the Kd, i have obs you. if you say that your an idoit. and you prot half way though damage.
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Zuranthium



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Sure, not always (and I never claimed that), but then nobody always does. Unless an Aura Stab bot is being used. And there will always be times when Aura is on recharge or you're casting a spell (or on an aftercast) regardless. There's also the issue of people balling up and not being able to target click properly as a result.

As for AoF - again, it seems like you didn't read my post. I didn't use it as pre-prot, I used it more like an Infuse and just used Guardian/Aura/SH for pre-prot. That was perhaps not the best thing to do, but it was my first time playing the bar and I described the other problems with the backline synergy and flagger bar that were going on. Feel free to continue and place blame if you want, I'd love to see how effective you would have been playing the bar for the first time and with a retarded team build.

If you'd like, I can go and count all the times you miss a Heal or eat a Bull's Strike. It happens frequently.

Have we already forgotten the match where I had to run over and save you from a Hammer Warrior + Ranger because they nearly soloed you in 5 seconds as a result of you eating Bull's Strike (which caused Dragon to get spiked, although as we all agreed he also wasn't using his Blind properly)? A short time after that, the Hammer spiked Dragon with 2 Eles assisting. Those were the ONLY damage characters there at the time and you failed to follow damage and heal. I had Guardian on Dragon but the Hammer got lucky and hit through it on all attacks.

I didn't rage at any of those mistakes, I calmly pointed them out and trusted we would learn from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:08 pm

Zuranthium wrote:
Did you read what I wrote? A new bar and complete lack of faith/coordination with the (bad) build that was being run. You didn't Infuse the spike when I was KDed either. No single person can be blamed.

I use Stab and B-stance before KDs all the time and follow where damage is going. The fact of the matter is, it's no coincidence the guild got top 50 for the first time when I starting playing. Nor is it coincidence that many guilds I've been in over the years have maintained a top 30 rank. Very Happy

I greatly enjoy the personalities of the people in Cookie Rehab and thought it was a guild where the members were open minded and had the correct mindset to improve and grow. Raging over a bad match results in nothing.
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:10 pm

It's easy for me to count i just need to count how many times an aura lands-0 times!
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:11 pm

And your right i didn't read your entire post because it's full of bullshit just like your are on ventrilo, you focus on everyone else's gameplay when playing which is one of your problems.
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Deavon



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:14 pm

Zuranthium wrote:
, the Hammer spiked Dragon with 2 Eles assisting. Those were the ONLY damage characters there at the time and you failed to follow damage and heal. I had Guardian on Dragon but the Hammer got lucky and hit through it on all attacks.

I didn't rage at any of those mistakes, I calmly pointed them out and trusted we would learn from it.
Are you joking? he was on little health by the time i managed to walk to him, and when i got there it was either me or him to die i couldnt infuse him because of my health and i chose to save myself and that is synergy not your fault or mine. you could argue you would have saved me if i had saved him, and i could aruge why didn't you save him and let me save my self.
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:21 pm

Not that I particularly care, but u say that people are blaming you for those bad load of gvgs that happened on 1 day, but the fact is half of the people didn't like your monking since the first time we played with you.
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Obsi
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Thu May 27, 2010 6:34 pm

I hate to see arguments like this arise with people I actually enjoyed playing with. I don't understand where your ego came from Zurrie, and it's quite disappointing because I really thought of you as a genuinely nice guy. On the flip side, Kyle you're way too aggressive over this and it's probably better if you don't reply at all. I don't understand why we always have to end up being enemies with the ones we used to call partners. Just because you weren't friends in the first place doesn't mean you have to be enemies now.
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Zuranthium



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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri May 28, 2010 3:28 am

Deavon wrote:
Zuranthium wrote:
Did you read what I wrote? A new bar and complete lack of faith/coordination with the (bad) build that was being run. You didn't Infuse the spike when I was KDed either. No single person can be blamed.

I use Stab and B-stance before KDs all the time and follow where damage is going. The fact of the matter is, it's no coincidence the guild got top 50 for the first time when I starting playing. Nor is it coincidence that many guilds I've been in over the years have maintained a top 30 rank. Very Happy

I greatly enjoy the personalities of the people in Cookie Rehab and thought it was a guild where the members were open minded and had the correct mindset to improve and grow. Raging over a bad match results in nothing.

It's a figure of speech, meaning "often". Such as someone saying "Hey, do you like that restaurant?" and you responding, "Yes, I go there all the time!"

But just ignore every point I made. No

Deavon wrote:
It's easy for me to count i just need to count how many times an aura lands-0 times!

Oh please.

And for the record, the Prot monk shouldn't have to spam Aura Stab on the Heal monk on recharge (against a spike build, then perhaps). Counting the Hammer Warrior's adrenaline is better so energy can be conserved. It's not my job to make sure you don't get KDed by every Bulls Strike.

Deavon wrote:
Zuranthium wrote:
, the Hammer spiked Dragon with 2 Eles assisting. Those were the ONLY damage characters there at the time and you failed to follow damage and heal. I had Guardian on Dragon but the Hammer got lucky and hit through it on all attacks.

I didn't rage at any of those mistakes, I calmly pointed them out and trusted we would learn from it.
Are you joking? he was on little health by the time i managed to walk to him, and when i got there it was either me or him to die i couldnt infuse him because of my health and i chose to save myself and that is synergy not your fault or mine. you could argue you would have saved me if i had saved him, and i could aruge why didn't you save him and let me save my self.

You're confusing the two separate times. The time that you ate the Hammer Warrior's Bulls Strike and I had to push over to save you (let you save yourself? seriously? you were at literally 1 health) was when Dragon died first. However, the second time Dragon died was when it was just a Hammer + 2 Eles at the flagstand. I put Guardian on him but you weren't paying attention or something and they killed him right in front of your face as a result of the Hammer getting lucky and hitting through my Guardian in rapid succession.

Matt wrote:
Not that I particularly care, but u say that people are blaming you for those bad load of gvgs that happened on 1 day, but the fact is half of the people didn't like your monking since the first time we played with you.

The fact is we only lost 1 match that didn't have a DC or AFK, including many matches against top 20 guilds, during the first several days I played with the guild. I did some especially amazing Holy Veil work against Pleb that helped the guild to flawless their hex build in under 4 minutes. Whoever didn't like my work should ponder why we didn't die all those times.

Obsi wrote:
I hate to see arguments like this arise with people I actually enjoyed playing with. I don't understand where your ego came from Zurrie, and it's quite disappointing because I really thought of you as a genuinely nice guy. On the flip side, Kyle you're way too aggressive over this and it's probably better if you don't reply at all. I don't understand why we always have to end up being enemies with the ones we used to call partners. Just because you weren't friends in the first place doesn't mean you have to be enemies now.

I am a nice guy. I'm not just going to sit back and get dogpiled, though. Everyone in this guild made just as many or MORE mistakes than I did while we were playing. I find it unfair to place all the blame on me and point out things I've done wrong (especially on that day of the meta change) when everyone else has done something to cause the guild to lose matches (and that match we lost which caused people to rage can not even be entirely placed on me, for the reasons I detailed).

It's not ego, I'm not trying to say I was perfect, I'm just upset at the poor behavior and lack of perspective from the Guild. I genuinely like everyone in LAME (including Deavon - not sure why you're so bitter), so it's very disappointing to see the bad attitudes and potentially lose a group of people you enjoyed spending recreational time with and might have become a great team with.

Best of luck if I don't see you in the future. Nothing but love on my end.
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri May 28, 2010 4:05 am

Then stop posting, the only reason i'm replying is because i find your replys amusing,
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri May 28, 2010 7:12 am

Deavon wrote:
Then stop posting, the only reason i'm replying is because i find your replys amusing,
i'd rtaher think it's because you're an idiot. Obs is right on this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Fri May 28, 2010 11:21 am

Drill wrote:
Deavon wrote:
Then stop posting, the only reason i'm replying is because i find your replys amusing,
i'd rtaher think it's because you're an idiot. Obs is right on this one.

Is it possible for you to ever dissagree with obs, u looooooooooooooooooove him.
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Drill
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PostSubject: Re: Our [LAME] Faults   Sat May 29, 2010 5:32 am

Matt wrote:
Drill wrote:
Deavon wrote:
Then stop posting, the only reason i'm replying is because i find your replys amusing,
i'd rtaher think it's because you're an idiot. Obs is right on this one.

Is it possible for you to ever dissagree with obs, u looooooooooooooooooove him.
not much, because is nearly alway's right.
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