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 Flag Pushing

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Drag0n
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PostSubject: Flag Pushing   Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:01 pm

So i have been thinking about how party heal works atm and the main changes which have led to the flag pushing meta. Flag pushing as a gameplay is NOT fun and i doubt many people are going to disagree with this. And this means in the current meta the party heal can barely keep up. I would personally never run on a flagger vs these high pressure orientated build in the meta, mainly triple melee. And this apllies to almost any build, the game is decided by your flagging. Push on the flagger for a small period of time = wipe. And this is regardless of what type of flagger is ran or how much party heal it has because the meta has developed into the flagger being the party healer.

This playstyle is mainly determined by 2 skills

Cripshot: What was the actual purpose of buffing this skill? What would you really use this skill for other than pushing on the flagger. Pretend there were no flags in the game then would anyone run this skill? I dont think so. Its primarily a flagger pushing skill and this is bad for the game. I would happily kill this skill just to remove this type of playstyle.

Freezing gust: The only real problem on the water ele bar. Needs at least an 8 second recharge imo as this one skill can lock the flagger down when flagger pushing, it gets rupted you have 2 backup snares so flaggers can never get anywhere. Its too risky to allow this to happen to your flagger so you run on a warrior which means you can push even harder on the flagger promoting even more flagger pushing.


In my opinion flagger pushing should involve skill. If you want to boost then you should have to apply one snare and then shut down the removes which takes alot more skill. Not just cripshot,rc,cripshot,rc which is brainless.
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:53 am

whats this? Dragon complaining about playing brainless stuff?
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Drill
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:39 pm

hated cripshot from day 1 it was played in GvG
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:20 pm

i liked cripshot on splits (in the days of war, ranger, shatterstone split), but its kinda dull using it for 8v8, especially when you have a water ele with 3 snares...
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:33 pm

damons reply

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't see how it supports other types of play because you've never split with it. There are many plays only possible because of CS (while Water Magic can create similar plays, it is much easier to deal with). Here are five examples:

- Overcommitment on split to draw >50% of the enemy healers back, just to collapse on the stand with CS buying you time before their healers regroup.

- Use CS as an anti-anti-split response by following and snaring those chasing after your primary split character. This helps you on maps like Solitude where you are instantly committed and vulnerable to collapse.

- Alternatively, you can create a breakaway where there otherwise wouldn't be one by using CS on their first split responder as your primary split character rushes right past them. This lets you split immediately instead of running around the map looking for backdoors.

- CS can threaten a strong anti-split response because, though he cannot defend himself, once your committed into his range you will not be able to escape should others collapse on you. This means instead of mirroring splits and stalemating, you can lure them into committing and collapse heavily to actually net kills.

- On open/long maps like Frozen Isle or Uncharted Isle, you can rotate your split constantly and use CS to delay the enemy response each time. This works when you have a lot of fast skirmish characters, because you can start with one, then send two, then maybe send a different two. The snare from the CS makes it difficult for the enemy to simply follow your damage around.

Those are basic plays that have nothing to do with interrupts or poison, and are possible because Crippling Shot becomes more powerful as fewer people are around. It may not promote good play, but that's a fault of the players and their one-dimensional, unimaginative, subordinate play styles. The only way to "promote good play" is to spoon feed it to people by winning with it on observer mode. Don't expect skills to do it.

Andrew brings up a good point about how these kinds of plays don't require everlasting Cripple. Perhaps a 15e cost (7e instead of 4e with the 14 Expertise people run) would put a time limit on how long CS can keep people snared. We'll have to test that, but it should keep these kinds of plays possible without threatening everlasting Cripple.
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:52 pm

so, he agreed with me? cs was good for splits? :p
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:17 pm

niggers
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PostSubject: Re: Flag Pushing   Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:16 am

Drag0n wrote:
niggers
sand nigger
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